Dining across the divide: ‘He agreed with me on a wealth tax, which I thought was unusual for a Reform voter’

7 hours ago 9

Fraz, 22, Bradford

Occupation Law graduate, training to become a commercial solicitor

Voting record Was only eligible to vote in the last election and had to go away at the last minute. Describes himself as “pretty central”

Amuse bouche When Fraz was at Durham University he once gave football manager Neil Warnock a tour of the city. “We were stopped by at least 100 people asking for pictures”

Pete, 48, Barnard Castle

Occupation Software engineering manager

Voting record Has voted for everyone, most recently Reform. Describes himself as “slightly right of centre”

Amuse bouche Pete designed and now maintains a mobile trainspotting app. “When you see a train, you put the numbers in, it tells you if and when you’ve previously seen it”

For starters

Pete Fraz is a very impressive young lad – intelligent and articulate. Young people have it hard these days. But he was so positive. He was surprised I had lived in Pakistan for six months when I was younger, setting up an office.

Fraz I was born in Pakistan: my father claimed asylum in the UK when I was two. My parents spoke little English when they came. All I knew about Pete was that he was a Reform voter, so the likelihood was that he’d be older.

Pete I had fish cakes, which were fantastic, then venison. And a Coke, because I was driving.

Fraz I had a Diet Coke – I don’t drink alcohol. And I double-salmoned – smoked to start and then a grilled fillet.

Fraz and Pete chatting across a restaurant table

The big beef

Pete I don’t blame anyone for trying to come here, to make a better life, and I deplore the stuff you see in some of the press. Having said that, immigration’s too high. We’re poor at building housing and services for the level of immigration we have. Equally, dentist appointments, school places – there’s a disconnect between the number of people coming in and the services we’re providing for them; it causes problems for the people who are here.

Fraz My argument would be: which type of immigrants would you not want coming? We agreed asylum seekers and illegal migrants are a tiny proportion, so it’s mostly skilled workers. And if asked, “Do you want fewer nurses, doctors, IT support workers?”, people generally say no, we do want these people. The root cause is a skills shortage in the UK and that’s not being fixed any time soon.

Pete If you change 10% of the people in an area every year and they assimilate, that’s great. But if you change 30% of the population every year … it’s that turnover: no one knows the context of the area they’re moving to.

Fraz Integration is a two-way street. My parents and my religion imposed on me the responsibility to integrate into a new culture. But the government also has to facilitate this. Rishi Sunak proposed a scheme like a community service for asylum seekers – it got backlash, but in principle I agreed with it.

Sharing plate

Pete We agreed that we’d failed to tax billionaires in a way that makes sense. Income is taxed more than accumulated wealth, and that’s wrong.

Fraz He agreed with me on a wealth tax, which I thought was unusual for a Reform voter. We bonded over football; he’s Middlesbrough, I’m Chelsea.

For afters

Pete I’m a floating voter, disenchanted with the main parties. Some of the far-right stuff Reform come out with isn’t helpful, Farage is a bit slippery and has a casual attitude to the truth, but you can say that about most politicians. As long as he gets things done, I’d be OK with him as PM.

Fraz I don’t have a grudge against anyone who voted for Reform. The issue I have is there’s a lot of careless rhetoric used around the party. After the Southport attack, following the misinformation on X, a mob targeted my mosque – they bricked people’s windows and smashed a police car. I mention this not to highlight that, but the response of the local community who had interacted with Muslims and who raised about 13 grand for the mosque, which went back into local charities. The fear of the unknown is something we have to get away from.

Takeaways

Pete We were there for three hours. I can’t imagine a random encounter leading you to sit down with someone 25 years younger with entirely different experiences. It was marvellous.

Fraz It was inspiring and heartwarming. I was really struck by Pete’s optimism for the future. He’s invited me round for a cup of tea.