Dining across the divide: ‘I was expecting some leftist, anti-capitalist, socialist Guardianista’

Celestino, 55, Bristol

Occupation Retired

Voting record Celestino, an American, considers himself “a centrist”. In 2020 he voted for Biden, in 2024 for Trump. In the UK he has voted in local elections, most recently Conservative

Amuse bouche Before moving to England, Celestino lived in South Korea where he learned to paraglide. “I spent my weekends flying like a bird”

Miles, 39, Bristol

Occupation Accountant/lumberjack

Voting record Miles describes himself as “left of centre and very liberal”. Has recently voted Green, though is as yet undecided about Zack Polanski

Amuse bouche Miles is part-owner of a sawmill and conifer wood in Wales, which is currently being felled and restored to deciduous woodland

For starters

Celestino I had spring rolls, and we both had the fish. Nice place.

Miles The fish was delicious. They had a cookery course going on, which was interesting to see.

Celestino My family, originally from Portugal, moved to America when I was three. We became naturalised US citizens, though we always kept our Portuguese citizenship. I now have settled status in the UK, having lived here for five years. Miles is from Cornwall, I have friends in Devon – so I know there’s rivalry about the proper way to do scones and cream and jam.

Miles We were having a friendly chat, then it was like Celestino suddenly switched on: right, we’re here to debate. Almost like when you see boxers, joking around, then suddenly they’re like: right, we’re here to fight. If he’s centrist, he’s an American centrist; their centre is right of ours.

The big beef

Celestino Last year I visited my family in New Jersey, a blue-collar state. For every home with a Biden sign there were two or three with a Trump one. I wasn’t impressed with Kamala Harris, and I saw the mess going on down at the border. My cousin was complaining that the school was now filled with children of migrants.

Miles I said, “What about the farmers who haven’t sold a single soya bean to China because of his trade war?” Two-thirds of the workforce in some states is made up of migrants. Farmers might have voted for Trump for various reasons, but destroying the economy wasn’t one of them.

Celestino The radical left hates him, no matter what. If Trump announced a cure for cancer, the left would complain he’s putting scientists out of work. On farm workers, there should be work visas, maybe for two years.

Miles Trump isn’t thinking long term, he doesn’t really care about the country. And he now seems to have lost it, sometimes barely following a thought. There should be real concern about his ability to lead a country.

Sharing plate

Celestino I was expecting some leftist, anti-capitalist, socialist Guardianista, going on about the evils of late-stage capitalism. But no. We agreed that financial literacy is not taught in this country or in the US. I think maybe the government or banks do it on purpose. We agreed on the benefits of investing.

Miles We felt children should be given age-appropriate financial education, so they understand how it all works and don’t get caught up in scams.

For afters

Celestino We discussed Ice agents going after illegal migrants: if you break into a house you are a squatter; they are squatters in America. My family were immigrants. My mother loves Portugal but America gave her everything. We followed the rules, waited our turn – other people should do the same.

Miles The argument that you’ve got to have rules and be able to enforce them isn’t completely wrong – but Trump doesn’t follow the rules. And the trouble with Ice is they’re not picking illegal migrants, it’s anyone who isn’t white, and they’re using violent tactics. They have just announced $45bn to build detention centres, and you wonder what they’ll be used for in the future.

Takeaway

Celestino It was a blast. I think if Miles hadn’t liked me, we would have just eaten, discussed this and that, then left. But we chatted away until he had to go to take care of his son. I think we established a connection.

Miles It would be good to have a second meetup, because often you’re so caught up in the conversation, you’re not really thinking about it. For example, I didn’t really challenge Celestino seeming to have two different views on following rules. But I really enjoyed it.

Additional reporting: Kitty Drake

Celestino and Miles ate at The Saigon Kitchen, Bristol

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